Front wheel bearing and puller

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rogerb
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Front wheel bearing and puller

Postby rogerb » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:49 pm

I'm making very slow progress with my rebuild. I've at last got the front upright disconnected from the swinging arm and the front wheel bearing doesn't feel good. The local Yamaha dealer doesn't have an extractor that fits to extract the bearing. Does anyone know whether it is the same as an XS1100 extractor with the same number: 90890-04127?

Secondly, the only post I can find about front wheel bearings suggests that they are very expensive and available only from Yamaha, if at all. Is this going to be the end of the project?

Thanks a lot for any replies.

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Postby 24c » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:59 pm

rogerb,
I doubt the bearing puller is anything special, and as to sizes, you only need to know what they are. I'm sure a car wheel bearing could fit, but even if the outer was a special size, I could get it machined to take a common bearing.

So it's not the end just the beginning :)

Mike
I've just started riding the GTS again, and it'll be changing

rogerb
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Postby rogerb » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:27 pm

Thanks 24c, I must stay positive.

I'm still making heavy weather of the ignition, but I have a cheapish programmable ignition kit from Jaycar of Australia which will probably lead me up the garden path, as it needs careful soldering etc. My eyes aren't the billion pixel things they once were. I followed up your suggestion of looking into IMFSoft, and they've got a new Mini Master unit which looks promising.

Anyway, your advice is very welcome.

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Postby 24c » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:08 pm

rogerb,
You looked at the Imfsoft pages, and yes they have a Mini Master, but it's not what you want, you need a Master 4TCI or a v3 MicroSquirt.

You could use a module board, but the VR circuits aren't good enough for the cam sensor, however I have a cam sensor that'd work with a Module or cased v2 MicroSquirt. I've moved on since my experiments with these units, and there are great solutions out there now.

The Imfsoft is just over £200 landed, and I can sell you a wiring loom adapter that your fading eyes (me too) can use. Personally, I'd go for a MicroSquirt module board, a bunch of cheap female jumpers, in the OEM case, and a Opel cam sensor with a pull up to get the cam lobe to trigger at cranking speeds.The biggest problem with the Imfsoft is the Czech to English software translations, and the clunky software compared to TunerStudio.

I have a front arm in the loft and a wheel hub, that I'll drag down and measure over the next few days, and maybe I'll be surprised by the bearing sizes.

Personally, I have a slight "clunk" on the red bike, and I think it's a ball joint, and that definitely is a special, but I reckon with my CNC & motor factor contacts I can suss an alternative.


Mike
I've just started riding the GTS again, and it'll be changing

rogerb
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Postby rogerb » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:57 am

Thanks Mike. When you say 'in the OEM case' do you mean that the module board needs to be integrated with the existing ECU in some way? The trouble is my knowledge of electronics is so slight that I can't make what are probably common-sense deductions. I want to do without as many sensors as possible, and I've got carbs, not injectors. I know this may be suboptimal for engine performance, but I want the simplest system possible, so just a fixed advance curve basically.

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Postby 24c » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:14 am

Hi again Roger,

I don't know how much of the wiring loom you are keeping, or if you are using the original dash, any ABS?, etc.

If you just want ignition only, then you still need to use the existing sensors. Personally, I'd use a MicroSquirt v3, because the software is easier to grasp ( you know somebody here who has a better knowledge level :) ), and it can decode the existing trigger wheel set up. The problem is to fit a missing tooth wheel to the GTS engine is hard. To modify the crank to a missing tooth set up is equally hard, so you need to use the cam input sensor. This becomes a 4+1 set up in trigger wheel speak.

The only other option is to acquire a Thunderace engine and ECU, which has a different crankshaft trigger set up, and your good to go.

Looking at all of this, a MicroSquirt v3 is the most cost effective, at £325 in the UK with a loom you can splice into the existing sensors/set up. The basic Imfsoft, would need a trigger wheel mod (very hard IMO) and still cost £200!

Mike
I've just started riding the GTS again, and it'll be changing

rogerb
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Postby rogerb » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:41 am

Thanks for the reply, Mike. I think you're right about the MicroSquirt. When you say 'still need to use the exisiting sensors' do you mean that I would need to wire in the MAP, lambda etc. etc. and deal with the lack of input from them, or just that I will need to use the existing crank and cam sensors?

But what about buying it from the USA? From Diyautotune.com it would be £200 odd before shipping and tax, so about £275 in all.

Still can't get the front axle out! The puller has to screw onto the ABS sensor shaft, which is 36 mm diameter, and I can't find one to suit. Early days yet, on this particular thing.

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Postby rogerb » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:45 am

To answer your first line, I intend to keep as much of the original loom as necessary, but I also intend to do without the ABS and the original dash, and to rig up a digital speedo using the ABS sensor on the front axle.

If I'd known how much I needed to know I would have left more of it alone. Making it simple is quite complicated.

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Postby 24c » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:45 pm

Roger,

You've taken off the hub cap from the ABS sensor side of the hub. Undone the nut, so unless I am hugely mistaken, why can't you use a Mini 1000 bolt on hub puller cum slide hammer and bolt this onto the front axle, and impact slide the hub out?

From this a normal stepped bearing puller will remove the bearings, or a brass drift through the centre tapped all round. If you are changing the bearings a little heat to the aluminium will help them come out with less fretting/force.

MicroSquirt is definitely cheaper from DIY Autotune, go for it, I was just quoting the at the UK landed price from fleaBay reseller. Re sensors, it might be useful to keep the MAP one, just to improve the cruising MAP at speed. The temperature sensor (coolant) is also useful for choke operation in cold weather, and hot starting settings.

As you are keeping the loom, you'll need somebody who's got the pinouts from the original loom plugs, and can help you wire it up. I also have a female connector like the OEM ECU has that can be used with a MicroSquirt loom.

Just as a lateral thinking exercise, it would be possible to use the original GTS1000 ECU, and not use the injector side. As you are not using the original dash, it would be OK. That'll save you some coin, obviously TPS might need to be fitted, but you could just add this onto the carb spindle if you couldn't bypass it with a resistor. :idea:
I've just started riding the GTS again, and it'll be changing

rogerb
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Postby rogerb » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:56 pm

I misunderstood the way the puller worked. I have now had the axle and bearings pressed out with a hydraulic press, but I'm sure your suggestion would have worked. I'm just not experienced enough in automotive stuff to see the obvious.

What you say about the temp sensor makes good sense but I want to do without an airbox, so I'm not sure where I could fit the MAP sensor.

I must go and examine the ECU to see whether I'd have a hope of being able to isolate the injector stuff and keep the ignition stuff. That would be a very good solution not only from the money side (quite short at the mo).

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Postby 24c » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:44 pm

Hi again Roger,

The air box has the IAT sensor, Inlet Air Temperature, the MAP or Manifold Air Pressure sensor is fitted onto the vacuum bleed off the carbs, so there's no issue there. The IAT isn't really needed, as you can use the coolant temperature, CLT, for the cold & hot start settings. Technically as the air heats up in the inlet, the ignition should be tweaked slightly, but it's small beer, and coolant temps will be a good compromise.

The ECU is no problem, basically the injectors are a resistive load, so you just place a resistor across the connector, and you have a dummy injector that does nothing. The fuel pump relay you might need if you have an electric fuel pump in your system...it doesn't know whether it is carbs or injectors.

Mike
I've just started riding the GTS again, and it'll be changing

rogerb
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Postby rogerb » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:36 am

Thanks for the reply again, Mike. I've had a look at the ECU and it's going to take me quite a while to identify the components, but I've got the service manual (new features) so it should be possible. When you say 'place a resistor across the connector' what specification of resistor is needed for this? Or is that like asking 'what's a spanner'?

At a tangent, did you ever get the exhaust system that you were developing finished?

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Postby 24c » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:56 am

Hi again Roger,

What somebody needs to do is disconnect the dash, and see if the bike will start. There might be a fault check routine in the ECU, well I'm pretty sure there is, so to fool it, you can place 12-18Ω resistors, say 1W max, and that'll be a dummy injector load. Likewise for the IAT, although it's pretty small and it can be tie wrapped under the tank etc, CLT you will use, because you're going to use the stock radiator?, TPS could be modded to fit, or just run without it. I know the bike will run without MAP, but it's a pretty strange set up (injected bike).

I did work out all the loom to make my OEM ECU to MicroSquirt plug, and I can PM the antitheft keyswitch work around too, don't want to put it about for all to see. I saw the doodle the other day, but I've moved it, so I'll try and find it over the next few days, and scan it in, and place in the Image Gallery.

Exhaust is dormant (and so are all projects), as I work on the house. Once this is getting done, then I can look elsewhere. The exhaust parts are made, just got to weld them up. I lost one set with a bad cut, but there's three in the wings. It's just a 4-2-1 collector that replaces the cat at the moment, and the idea was to use standard headers, with an upgrade later.
I've just started riding the GTS again, and it'll be changing

rogerb
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Postby rogerb » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:54 pm

Hi Mike

Good luck with the work on your house.

I think I'll have to think about this a bit more. It may be more difficult for me to try to integrate the ECU rather than just leave it out and use a MicroSquirt.

The front wheel bearing does seem to be a peculiar type. Well there are two, and one is clearly a caged ball lateral thrust, but the other is 62 x 30 x 22 and it seems to be a caged ball but it's too wide for just a single race but doesn't look wide enough for a double. You can only see about 1-2 mm of the rolling component from one side, so it's hard to be sure what the structure is.

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Postby 24c » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:18 pm

Roger,

The bearing will have a number on it, if it's a special it might be like "F12345", but I'd expect it to be a taper roller bearing. However it might be a combined roller and thrust bearing, or a double row ball roller bearing (self aligning), which will explain the wider than normal width

Mike
Normal bearing nomenclature is ID (shaft) x OD x width
62 is OD
30 is ID?
22 is width?

If so a taper roller exists 30 x 62 x 21.25
Also self aligning bearings, 30 x 62 x 20
I've just started riding the GTS again, and it'll be changing


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